The Giant Ghost Situation

[BurnForGame]

This is a simple question: If Gogogo Giant revives Gogogo Ghost with its effect, can Ghost revive Gogogo Golem even though Ghost can't change to Defense Position because it's already there?

My understanding of PSCT indicates that in a "do X, then do Y" situation such as Ghost, Y is not a requirement in order to do X. In other words, because Ghost summons Golem then tries to change itself to Defense, it will still summon Golem even if it's Special Summoned in Defense.

[Drillwarrior]

It's my assumption that yes you still can as changing to defense position is not a cost but an effect.


But let's ask.....


Ursiel
ALZ
ragda

the ruling squad.

[Ursiel]

Yes you are both correct. You must do X in order to do Y, but don't have to do Y to do X in the scenario.

Its one of the biggest reasons that the Gogogos have a 2 Xyz play off a single normal summon.

[BurnForGame]

I thought so. Thanks!

[ragda]

OBJECTION!

Let's look at the card in question:

Gogogo Ghost

If this card is Special Summoned: You can target 1 "Gogogo Golem" in your Graveyard; Special Summon that target in face-up Defense Position, then change this card to Defense Position. You can only use the effect of "Gogogo Ghost" once per turn.

While Ursiel is correct about the "then" conjunction as written in PSCT in that changing to DEF position is NOT a pre-requisite to get the special summon, to activate an effect, all mandatory portions of an effect MUST be able to resolve as written. PSCT conjunctions that determine sequential effects or what effects depend on each other (or not) is only an issue when resolving. What I mean by that is that if something is chained that could interfere with the resolution of another effect, or you rely on a particular outcome to activate cards/effects, then you look to the conjunctions to figure those out.

In this case, you must be able to go to DEF position later to activate the effect in the first place. If this whole effect was mandatory, then it will activate (barring effects that prevent activations, not just effects) and not really care about going to DEF, since that's only a hurdle for activation. Let's say Ghost was SS'd in attack position and after it activated, it gets hit by Book of Moon. In that case, the summon can happen as normal, and the switching to DEF is ignored.

[Drillwarrior]

May 29, 2014 13:06:35 GMT -6 ragda said:

OBJECTION!

Let's look at the card in question:

Gogogo Ghost

If this card is Special Summoned: You can target 1 "Gogogo Golem" in your Graveyard; Special Summon that target in face-up Defense Position, then change this card to Defense Position. You can only use the effect of "Gogogo Ghost" once per turn.

While Ursiel is correct about the "then" conjunction as written in PSCT in that changing to DEF position is NOT a pre-requisite to get the special summon, to activate an effect, all mandatory portions of an effect MUST be able to resolve as written. PSCT conjunctions that determine sequential effects or what effects depend on each other (or not) is only an issue when resolving. What I mean by that is that if something is chained that could interfere with the resolution of another effect, or you rely on a particular outcome to activate cards/effects, then you look to the conjunctions to figure those out.

In this case, you must be able to go to DEF position later to activate the effect in the first place. If this whole effect was mandatory, then it will activate (barring effects that prevent activations, not just effects) and not really care about going to DEF, since that's only a hurdle for activation. Let's say Ghost was SS'd in attack position and after it activated, it gets hit by Book of Moon. In that case, the summon can happen as normal, and the switching to DEF is ignored.

...nice avy for an objection. >.>
Someday I need to read/watch that manga/anime.


But you're saying it will not be able to summon?

[ragda]

It cannot activate its effect to summon.

P.S. Ace Attorney is primarily a video game series. Started with GBA games (2001 for the first one, newest is 2013). There are manga spinoffs too, however.

[BurnForGame]

Seriously? I don't get the effect after all? Well, I might as well scrap that deck now... *sigh*

I'm glad I asked.

[ragda]

You won't get the third summon, but the deck still has a plethora of easy 1-card Rank 4 Xyz Summons. Giant into Ghost/Golem. Ghost SS'd via Book of Life, Soul Charge, Zombie Master, Mezuki, etc. into Golem.

[BurnForGame]

I know that, but it was an important part of the deck to still have options other than the two-material Rank 4. Thanks, though. This issue is resolved.

[Drillwarrior]

Yoh Komori lock away please